HBF or not?

[bugboy]

So I spent the day chasing some big Fritillaries up on Arnside Knott today but undersides were not very forthcoming, and the only ones that did present were definitely DGF. I'm a bit rusty with these guys, only seeing them as I do once every few years, so I've picked a few of the most likely suspects to be of the HBF to my eye's, but I'm far from confident (perhaps a bit of wishful thinking on some ). Opinions for yay or nay very welcome .

3 from the morning on the lower slope

4 from the late afternoon near the top

I'm most confident on this one, ticks all the upperside boxes for me.

[millerd]

Right - I'll have a stab...

I reckon there is a HBF lurking there amongst all the DGF, but I don't think it's the last one. The butterfly that immediately made me think High Brown was in the first set of three, the one annoyingly half hidden by grass on the bottom right. I suppose you'd like me to say why as well...

All the butterflies are males as far as I can see, which doesn't help. Both species do have sex brands in the form of slightly broadened forewing veins (nothing like those on SWF, though). However, though these are barely discernable on DGF and gradually widen and narrow again, on a male HBF the second two veins have a noticeably broadened section which appears more abruptly.

Here are two close ups which hopefully show you what I'm on about:

DGF - gradual and narrower

HBF - abrupt and wider

(the DGF is from Box Hill, and the HBF from Arnside last year - I have an underside shot of the butterfly to prove it!)

Here are close ups of the relevant bits of the last butterfly you posted (which I think is a DGF), and of the one I think is a HBF.

DGF veins2.JPG (50.97 KiB) Viewed 199 times

HBF veins2.png (62.43 KiB) Viewed 199 times

They seem to match. All the rest look like DGF.

What do you think?

Cheers,

Dave

[bugboy]

Thanks Dave, your reasoning seems sound to me. Funnily enough I was trying to focus on the scent brands (which I think probably trumps any of the subtle marking differences on account of natural variation of the latter) when I was chasing them but the final one I was looking at the wing shape (the forewing looks slightly concave) and the spots. I only saw the one female which briefly settled and there was no doubting her identity, a rather dusky lady like that one we saw on Denbies last year. Like I said, a bit of wishful thinking...

[David M]

The butterfly on the bottom right of your first image is certainly High Brown, Paul. Like Dave, I believe the rest are Dark Green.

[Padfield]

I agree. In addition, it's not just the shape of the sex brands but also the number. High brown (male) has two, on vv. 2 and 3, while dark green has three, on vv. 1, 2 and 3.

Guy

[bugboy]

Thanks guys, seems there was a lot of wishful thinking going on on my part . Based on that and the others I saw the DGF vastly outnumberd the HBF yesterday! Hope it doesn't mean they're larvae were out competing them too

One more day left of dodging showers and failing to avoid ticks.