Large Tort in Dorset

[Pete Eeles]

Sent to me from Simon Kidner:

"I thought that you might like a photo of the large tortoiseshell that has been seen four days running at Durlston Country Park".

Cheers,

- Pete

[Gruditch]

That's this weekend sorted out then

Gruditch

[Pete Eeles]

Simon also kindly sent the following information through for the location mentioned (Long Meadow) - thought you'd be interested

"Directions: Drive up to the carparks at Durlston, pay the charge (we need the money for essential maintenance!), and then walk back parallel to the road, just to the right. Long Meadow runs alongside the entrance road, separated by a thick strip of hedge. There is a tarmac path the full length. This morning there was no sign of the LT, but on previous days it was on the brambles between the tarmac path and the road. See attached aerial. For latest info, have a word with the duty ranger in the Visitor Centre. Simon."

Cheers,

- Pete

durlston long meadow.jpg (141.54 KiB) Viewed 2182 times

[Gruditch]

About this time last year, I was told that there was a big fancy wedding, somewhere around the Poole Quay area, where there was supposed to have been one of those tasteless butterfly releases. Two days later a reliable report from a privately owned area, said that a Large Tortoiseshell had been seen, and over the next few weeks several more had been seen.
I was then told that on the same private land this spring, that several Large Tortoiseshells, and one or more Camberwell Beauties, had been spotted. So as this individual at Durlston is only five miles south of the former sightings, is it more probable that it is a descendant from the wedding release butterflies, rather then a migrant.

Grudditch

[Piers]

The only thing is that those are extremely unusual species for wedding releases... The usual choice for the breeder are 'whites' or Monarch - easy to rear en masse (Large white can be reared on an artificial diet in huge nembers) and for some reson easy to manipulate in order to ensure emergence at the correct time - i.e. when the two sad ******* are grinning smugly in the gardens of the hotel!!!

Felix.

[Gruditch]

Just a theory, all I do know for sure is it will be gone, by the time we get there on Saturday.

Gruditch

[Jack Harrison]

Felix wrote:

Large white can be reared on an artificial diet in huge numbers

Mine seem to manage very well on cultivated cabbage in the vegetable garden This morning, removed eight large egg batches. But in my experience, if left, only a few manage to pupate. They either starve because they run out of food or else are parasitized with a tiny percentage surviving.

What is this artificial diet?

Jack

[Piers]

Here you go Jack -

http://educationalscience.com/butterflydiets.htm

At the risk of digressing from the original topic, artificial diets have been developed for some years. It certainly made things a lot easier when breeding huge quantities of pieris for school/laboratory use etc...!

My experience of rearing swallowtail using an artificial diet consistently resulted in imagines of a significantly smaller size than those reared on actual vegetation. But then for lab use that's not an issue I suppose...

Felix

[PaulJBN]

There's a company that provides Large Tortoiseshells to schools for science projects (watching them grow from caterpillars).

My lad had some in his nursary class (he's 5).

Maybe with all the schools breaking up recently, this could be where the LT are coming from ?

Just a thought.

[Matsukaze]

Surely releasing Large Tortoiseshell is illegal without a license, so hardly something schools should be doing?

Another one photographed in Somerset recently - picture on the Somerset Moth Group website.

[Pete Eeles]

There's a company that provides Large Tortoiseshells to schools for science projects (watching them grow from caterpillars).

My lad had some in his nursary class (he's 5).

Maybe with all the schools breaking up recently, this could be where the LT are coming from ?

Just a thought.

Hi Paul - sure they weren't Small Tortoiseshell?

Cheers,

- Pete

[Neil Hulme]

Hi all,
I don't really 'get' all this conspiracy theory stuff. Of course there have been well documented releases of captive bred LTs in the past (they stick out like 'sore thumbs'), but there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that we have been seeing an increasingly common influx of migrants from the continent over the last few summers (and subsequent over-winterers). The odds ones are appearing in Sussex, unsurprisingly again associated with other visitors. To get the effect we have seen over particularly the last two years, would require a 'captive breeder' to either retard or 'force' LT specimens to emerge 'conveniently' alongside sightings of e.g. Hummingbird Hawks and Clouded Yellows, then drive the full length of the UK South Coast, chucking them out the car window at regular intervals. Let's celebrate this happy trend and if you're lucky enough to see one - just enjoy it!
Neil

[Gruditch]

We did see a Hummingbird Hawkmoth, and a clouded Yellow at Durlston, but the warden agreed that with the northerly wind, the weather was not right, for the LT to turn up from the Continent, the week before. She believed that the LTs had been successfully overwintering around the Swanage area, so my theory, that they were not this years migrants, looks probable, I didn't mention the wedding thing though. Stop grumbling Kipper, your starting to sound like Jack.

Gruditch

[Jack Harrison]

Stop grumbling Kipper, your starting to sound like Jack.

Wrong thread, inappropriate comment and off topic. You should be on "Net Rage" if you want to wind people up.

Note to Pete: Is it possible to change my username to my hero, V.Meldrew?

Jack

[Piers]

Surely releasing Large Tortoiseshell is illegal without a license

Really!!! Why???

Felix.

[PaulJBN]

Hi Paul - sure they weren't Small Tortoiseshell?

Definately Large.
They actually had pics of them on the kits they came in...and the teacher said they were Large, and what teacher says is always right !

[Pete Eeles]

I still find that incredible - what were they fed on - elm, salix? Not the easiest things to grow in the classroom!

Cheers,

- Pete

[Jack Harrison]

I wouldn't be surprised if, like their close relative the Comma, they will feed on nettles if pushed.

As for the legality, I suppose it might be illegal if LT is officially classified as an alien, and not a British species. But we live in hope that it is again a true British species.

Jack

[Neil Hulme]

Hi Gruditch,
Here's some more 'grumbling' (a.k.a. provision of the facts) for you, as I continue my metamorphosis into Jack (he's a good chap, so I don't mind!) The warden is correct in saying that Large Tortoiseshells are probably overwintering in the Swanage area (as they are elsewhere), but the trouble is.... all that adult brood are dead, and have been for some time now. Look how fresh the Durlston specimen is.The ones now coming in from the continent are the progeny of the overwinterers. These will feed up and quite rapidly go into hibernation, appearing in the spring to (hopefully) mate in April. Although the phenology of many species became wildly skewed (both here and in N. Europe) in 2007, things are conforming to the normal pattern this year, i.e. the LTs arriving in the UK are precisely 'on time' to fit in with being 'newly emerged travellers'. This specimen probably arrived with the strong southwesterly wind blowing onto the Dorset coast on the 17th July. On the subject of possibly inappropriate releases, it's my job as an officer of Butterfly Conservation to look into these things. I have to agree with Felix and Pete. An extensive search for suppliers of butterflies for school/children's kits or weddings etc, revealed no surprises. The vast majority are Painted Ladies (plenty of Large White too). If anyone can provide me with details of the suppliers of Large Tortoiseshells (Paul?), specifically for children's kits, I would be very appreciative.
Neil

[Padfield]

Just a thought: the picture Pete posted shows an extremely fresh individual, with all the golden hairs thick and fresh and no wing damage or scale erosion. To me that gives a presumption of a locally-bred individual rather than a migrant, but only a presumption.

Guy