Are any of these acaciae!

[Paul]

Here is an acaciae in point.. they all look the same to me even when the books tell me what to look for... so how many of these ( if any) are ilicis, or even esculi..
1

2

3

4

5

6

7

[Padfield]

None of them are acaciae, Paul!!

In acaciae the orange lunules are confluent in ss1, 2 and 3, like this:



It is actually an easy hairstreak when you get the feel of these joined arches, which are always obvious.

All your pictures show well separated lunules. My gut feeling is esculi for all of them, with most doubt about numbers 5 and 6.

Don't take my pronouncements on these or any of the others as especially authoritative, by the way! I find it very difficult to do jizz from pictures and in the field I use jizz all the time.

Guy

[Paul]

Aaaaaaaaagh - I've obviously never been anywhere near an acaciae then!!!!!They were all small, & some have at least a bit of black outside the orange, they didn't behave like last year's esculi... grasping at straws most likely! - Love your pic of acaciae

[Padfield]

This is always going to be tricky!

In my experience, 1-4 can only be esculi. 7 is most probably esculi. 5 and 6, as I say, I could be persuaded on.

Here are a couple of undoubted ilicis:


(Switzerland)


(Val d'Aran)

The second shows the complete white marginal line, which is diagnostic of ilicis if present. In the first, this line fades out, but after half way. Both show the 'almost W' - the rather deviating hairstreak in the anal angle. It is generally flatter in esculi, though I don't think this is diagnostic either way.

Are they all from the same site?

Guy

[Paul]

Your photos are a great help.. shows differences not obvious in the books.. my sites were x3 in adjacent gorges, wooded, water margins, Sloes & Oaks around. On what I see now I'll search around for any more likely contenders, I took enough photos, determined to find at least one which wasn't esculi!!!

[Padfield]

For what it's worth, Tim Cowles, whose opinion I value and who is never afraid to disagree with me (!), views all these as esculi too. That doesn't mean they definitely are, but you'd need to hunt out a more convincing photo of ilicis to feel confident you had seen it.

Sorry! Is ilicis something you need? Perhaps we should do a day together in the Rhône Valley when you are out next year.

Guy

[Paul]

I'm definitely up for that, if I can get my logistics right. Can't think of anything I would like more!!