Black Veined Whites?

[MrSp0ck]

They would have to have been released as larvae, as the adults are hatching on site, if that is the case, it looks like the "Marsh Dumper" again.
if so all the facebook people critical of Hutch should regret what they have posted when the site is a victim of the dumper, who is widespread and mobile, which we are not.

[Andy02]

Surely , if they are hatching onsite and there were no adults onsite last summer , they must have been artificially introduced to site. Or am I missing something here

[David M]

Surely , if they are hatching onsite and there were no adults onsite last summer , they must have been artificially introduced to site. Or am I missing something here

That's my understanding, Andy. We'll have Sooty Coppers and Mazarine Blues the way things are going!!

[Matsukaze]

Surely the sheer number and widespread distribution of the butterflies being released must make it the work of more than one person? The amount of devil's bit scabious/hawthorn/whatever involved must be prohibitive, for a start.

[MrSp0ck]

Surely , if they are hatching onsite and there were no adults onsite last summer , they must have been artificially introduced to site. Or am I missing something here

There were 50 pairs of eyes at Hutch last Sunday and Monday and only 2 people saw them , a female last summer would not have been noticed as we all ignore whites mainly. The field was also locked off at the time of year, so only access by the sheep lookerers too. It would have been missed.

People tend to comment without knowing the facts and jumping to conclusions that could be way off.

We have only had one sighting many times of a male today, none of yesterdays females were seen, again showing how on a large site full off Foodplants they will be missed.

People were also chasing after female Brimstones all day, we have so many of those on site, so again an unexpected female BVW would have been ignored.

[Padfield]

I can't comment on their origins, but MrSpOck's fourth photo, of a female, appears to show the butterfly covered in meconium - a feature of mass emergence that gave rise in Switzerland to the superstition of 'la pluie de sang'.

Guy

[MrSp0ck]

Another 2 Hatched today and started with their floppy flight, it seems to take them a few hours before they are good at flying around. 2 were feeding in the lower field this afternoon gone 4pm. We could have had as many as 12 different ones now hatched on site.

[SarahM]

What a stunning butterfly.

[Roger Gibbons]

They are very common in France, sometimes exceptionally common - here is an image of a hundred or so males taking salts from the ground.

And a curio - a female that had just emerged - chrysalis visible - but the veins had not not yet turned black. It didn't stay long enough to ascertain when (and if) the veins went to black.

It used to occur in south east England (Kent in particular) but disappeared around 1911 for reasons that are still not understood, but may be climatic, related to a series of poor wet summers.

Roger

[Jack Harrison]

When I saw that picture of 100 BV Whites, I gasped and uttered an oath - the second word being "me".

Jack

[David M]

It's made news on BBC now:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65804939

At least they got the image right this time!

[millerd]

Dave

It's made news on BBC now:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65804939

At least they got the image right this time!

The photos could even be of the butterflies involved, rather than a stock image.

(I couldn't resist the temptation to see them for myself - well, one anyway, and a bit of a wonky individual too. )

Dave

[MrSp0ck]

They used the images Frank took yesterday of the non bent wing male. Bent wing has his area that he patrols every hour or so, we havnt located the other males territories, but there must be some if bent wing is typical.

[False Apollo]

Quote from Twitter - Butterflies galore being released over the Chiltern Hills at the moment - over 50 Marsh Fritillaries at Yoesden Bank (where never recorded before), almost 35 Black-veined Whites at numerous sites and many Marbled Fritillaries. Really getting ridiculous.

[MrSp0ck]

Are these confirmed, or more twitter twatter. if we have had 15 BVWs hatch on site they have not been released as adults and they have been around a week now and set up their territories. They need to be monitored at the other sites like we are doing. If they disappear shortly after being seen, it would point to release as adults.If Marbled Fritillaries turn up at Hutch it would then move our thinking to a visit from the "Marsh Dumper" again.

[False Apollo]

Difficult to say. The quote was from a well known birder who has many contacts. I just saw the tweet. Black-veined White seems to be easily available online,(egg to pupa) so the whole event seems clouded. I was rather excited by the Kent and Hants sightings at first but perhaps am a bit more suspicious now.

[MrSp0ck]

Our ones are not acting like released butterflies, we need to know how they are behaving on the other sites, as would help rule in or out by comparing the data. pupae would not have been viable cost wise, larvae in 10s and loses from those would not give double figure adults, pupae have a high loss rate due to birds finding them on the bushes. Eggs batches again die due to being on leaves that wilt before the eggs hatch if glued on to growing food. That leaves adult which ours have not been seen hatching and joining tongues and too floppy to fly for a couple of hours.

We cant rule out natural migrants in Dover, Hants, and a female last year at Hutch, or rule in release at other sites at the same time, or both. All we know is it is nobody to do with our site as it was a complete surprise and created a lot of extra work we dont need, and stopped scrub removal that part of the reserve needs badly.

[MrSp0ck]

Appart from the one in Dover, no pictures of BVWs have been posted other than at Hutch as far as i know, despite mentions on social media. The Hutch ones have been wiely photographed since last week.Lots of pictures that can be ruled out as Green-veined Whites have though.

[Roger Gibbons]

Releases of BVW are not new. I recall some years ago, I think maybe 2008, Pete ran a photographic workshop (they were good…) somewhere in Hampshire and we were all invited to bring a photo for others to comment on and maybe critique. I brought a photo of a BVW taken in France, and by chance there had been a release somewhere local, I think Stockbridge Down. When it was my turn to show the photo, Pete asked me where I took it. I jokingly replied “just after I released it at Stockbridge Down”. I did manage to convince Pete and the group that I was joking, but only just.

Roger

[Lawts]

Appart from the one in Dover, no pictures of BVWs have been posted other than at Hutch as far as i know, despite mentions on social media. The Hutch ones have been wiely photographed since last week.Lots of pictures that can be ruled out as Green-veined Whites have though.

There's a photo on Twitter posted by Phillip Lowe on the 26th May of one that was near Portsmouth around that time.