Life Cycles of British and Irish Butterflies

[Pete Eeles]

A 5th Instar larvae would be fully grown in most cases except the blues, hairstreaks and a few others.

Not if it's only just changed skin into the 5th instar!

as i said late "4th Instar" would describe a 4th instar that has reached its skin change

I see a difference between 'late 4th instar' and 'fully grown 4th instar'.

a 4th Instar larva of Dark Green Fritillary is not Fully Grown whatever the status in that instar

I agree it's not fully grown. But I do think it might be fully grown in the instar. I think we just need to agree to disagree

probably after this it will not get signed

Of course I'll sign it! And thanks in advance

Look forward to seeing you at the Sussex AGM, Martin

Cheers,

- Pete

[MrSp0ck]

Of course I'll sign it! And thanks in advance

Look forward to seeing you at the Sussex AGM, Martin

Cheers,

- Pete

Yes im looking forward to Both your talk and the book. We can have conflicting views and both be correct, this has been the case many times in history.

One for Guy, I have noticed on 2 occasions P. dido eating pollen like other heliconids, all books state they do not feed on pollen, but i think they can or do but we had to consider the following, one would rule out in the wild.

1 In the wild they are normally in the canopy, so they are out of sight and do it regularly but not observed
2 did they learn it off of other heliconids and tried it for themselves in a butterfly house.

in a butterfly house they cant feed high up so it was noticed.

We are always finding out new things by observations, many are unknown facts.

I wont comment on the book any further until i have my copy to refer too

[Padfield]

My name was mentioned (twice!) so I'll step to the podium ... Solomon says, wait 100 years. If people are still referring to 'Eeles' and talking about fully grown 1st instar larvae, Pete's choice of language will be vindicated. If not, Mr SpOck can smile wryly and sigh, 'I told you ...' Until then, I think the meaning at least is completely unambiguous. I must admit, I talk, rightly or wrongly, of fully grown sub-terminal instars.

On the P. dido question - which we probably shouldn't take too far on this thread, as it's rather off-topic - interesting! I certainly hadn't come across this before. Presumably, pollen-eating is not simply a behavioural phenomenon but biochemical, as Heliconids need to secrete proteases in their saliva to digest the pollen. Butterflies that don't feed on pollen wouldn't, surely, go to the bother of producing such proteases. So I would add a third possibility to Mr SpOck's two suggestions, namely, that in captivity, P. dido learns to exploit pollen that has already been doused in protease saliva by an unnaturally high concentration of Heliconius butterflies. Just a thought. Of Mr SpOck's 1 and 2, I prefer 1, for the same reason - that producing protease can't be a learnt activity.

Guy

[selbypaul]

My copy has just arrived in the post, a most wonderful anniversary present from my partner.

Only had a chance to skim through it quickly, but it looks superb, and can't wait to read it from cover to cover. A clear testament to the amount of effort you have put in for so many years, we are all so very lucky that you have published your knowledge and expertise!

Thankyou!

[Pete Eeles]

Thanks Martin, Guy and Paul!

Cheers,

- Pete

[NickHull]

Have given a copy to my brother and I am reading mine through....
As regards which instar is which, I just look at the pictures.....which are comprehensive;
so it is always a guess based on which one it looks like most

I trust I have given Pete all I owed him....?

A tour-de-force with so much information on larvae and pupae and general observations of the butterfly, egg-laying and breeding distribution, much of which is new, it offers a lot. Distribution data could be better; did you use latest BC data...? My only slight criticism; but you don't need this book for that - it is comprehensive and does what is says on the tin......

Well done; brilliant effort all.

[PhilBJohnson]

"Why is the subject of this book relevant?" (Page 1)
Someone postulated that:
"climate change has resulted in the Wall producing an increasingly frequent larger third brood, late in the year, when there is insufficient time for larvae to reach their third over-wintering instar."

In 2017 in Lincolnshire, many of the very late season (August/sept) Small Tortoiseshell looked (to me) fresh. They were later, believed to be third generation (second brood, 3 adult generations including the 2016-2017 adults of that year).
What was obvious to me, with this species was, that at least one generation needed to be in adult form to hibernate (over frost- winter successfully). Possibly, in the south of the UK, "stretching seasons" (longer warm average temperatures during Spring, Summer and Autumn) had meant that this species might have been out of timing with it's life cycles.

Page 254
"Changing weather patterns and climate change are also thought to impact the availability of lush and nitrogen rich nettles, as well as the synchronisation of flight period with the preferred growth form."

When to strim and not to strim nettles, I thought was a management practice that needed more understanding.
I particularly liked reading the Small Tortoiseshell section with detailed descriptions of courtship, mating and roosting.

"Thinking outside of the Garden box"
I thought that with more UK population growth, housing development in recent years with celebrity gardeners, only promoting and broadcasting nectar sources as food, rather than being food plant inclusive, had left it more important for places like riverbanks to be managed well for this butterfly.



Kind Regards,

[Paul Harfield]

Hi Pete
My copy arrived a couple of days ago... Magnificent!
I am sure we are all thankful for the massive effort you have put in to this work.
You might need to bring a pen to the Winter Social

[Pete Eeles]

Distribution data could be better; did you use latest BC data...? My only slight criticism; but you don't need this book for that - it is comprehensive and does what is says on the tin......

Thanks Nick! Regarding distribution maps - these were 'sketched' from BC data and intended to give a general sense of distribution, rather than detail. However, do let me know of any obvious errors (either here or at pete@ukbutterflies.co.uk).

Cheers,

- Pete

[Pete Eeles]

You might need to bring a pen to the Winter Social

Thanks Paul! I'm afraid I'm presenting at the Sussex BC AGM the day of the social, so won't make it this year

Cheers,

- Pete

[Pete Eeles]

Thanks for the comments Philip - I certainly agree with managing for larval foodplants as well as nectar sources!

Cheers,

- Pete

[Jack Harrison]

Pete. It is a brilliant book. I am sure that for a long time into the future people will simply talk about “Eeeles” (without a mention of the title of the book’s name) just as they still do about “South” or “Ford”. You have researched and produced a classic there.

But despite my fulsome praise, I do have one minor niggle – possibly the publishers are to blame. I can open the book at a random page and see superb photos of early stages. But I have to go back one or two pages to find out what species it is. Just the tiniest of print (alongside the page number for example), saying “Duke of Burgundy” or whatever would have been helpful.

Jack

[Pete Eeles]

Wow - thanks Jack! I'll pass that comment on to the publisher

Cheers,

- Pete

[David M]

I'm currently on High Brown Fritillary (a cause close to my heart). It's been fascinating reading up to now, Pete, and I'm sure it will continue in the same vein. All you need to know about all UK butterflies in one fairly easy to read publication.

Please tell me how the White Admiral's distribution chart includes part of the Gower peninsula though? I had always thought it was only present in Wales in the far south east?

[Pete Eeles]

Please tell me how the White Admiral's distribution chart includes part of the Gower peninsula though? I had always thought it was only present in Wales in the far south east?

Thanks David. Yeah - that particularly blob has been over-emphasised. The last batch of BC data provided that is used for UKB shows a definite presence on the Gower, although I can't find this included anywhere. I'll make a note of this and ask Richard Fox the next time I see him.

Cheers,

- Pete

[David M]

Thanks, Pete. Fair gave me a shock did that. I shall look forward to any further information if it is forthcoming.

[Pete Eeles]

Looks like it's a pre-2010 occurrence - look at the map here: https://butterfly-conservation.org/butt ... te-admiral

I'll have a chat with the 'great and the good' about the generally-accepted range that should be used ... something more constrained than the broad dataset used on UKB (and in the book!).

Cheers,

- Pete

[David M]

Looks like it's a pre-2010 occurrence - look at the map here: https://butterfly-conservation.org/butt ... te-admiral

I'll have a chat with the 'great and the good' about the generally-accepted range that should be used ... something more constrained than the broad dataset used on UKB (and in the book!).

Thanks, Pete. I'm always searching for information regarding butterflies local to me, and the presence of White Admiral came as a surprise. To be honest, I'm surprised it's even a historic record given the huge distance between the Gower and the known range of camilla in Wales, which has, for some while now, been the very south-easternmost areas of the country (at least to my knowledge).

[PhilBJohnson]

"Both sexes may mate more than once and one study showed females mated 2.4 times on average. The benefit to the female is not merely the transfer of sperm to fertilise her eggs, but also a "nuptial gift" of nutrients that she absorbs and that extends her life"
Reference: P95 - The Small White, Peter Eeles

I thought, was that a controlled caged study?
or does that gift also help the female fly longer distances? (migration, after mating for the first time). Evolution might have favoured the female flying further to deposit eggs.

Kind Regards.

[Pete Eeles]

I thought, was that a controlled caged study?

No - this was from wild-caught females that were dissected.

does that gift also help the female fly longer distances?

Since it extends her life then, potentially, yes.

Cheers,

- Pete