Swiss Skippers

Discussion forum for getting a butterfly identified.
Hardman
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Swiss Skippers

Postby Hardman » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:18 pm

Small weakly-marked skippers seen at Arolla in the Valais, SW Switzerland, at the beginning of August 2017. They were in flowery, wooded riverside vegetation. Warren's skipper? I'd be glad of help on this.
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Roger Gibbons
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Re: Swiss Skippers

Postby Roger Gibbons » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:39 pm

Small, but how small? Warren's is noticeably smaller than the average Pyrgus.

On what can be seen, these look right for female Carline.

Roger

Hardman
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Re: Swiss Skippers

Postby Hardman » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:23 pm

Thank you, Roger. Much appreciated.

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Padfield
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Re: Swiss Skippers

Postby Padfield » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:27 pm

Warren's skipper is a tricky one. It typically occurs at high altitudes on exposed and barren slopes where many other Pyrgus species are dimunitive and weakly marked (small alveus are a particular distraction!). Arolla is not far from it's strongholds near Zermatt but these would nevertheless be new records if confirmed, so caution is advised.

For what it's worth, I agree the last four look most like carlinae. The undersides, in particular, don't look like warrenensis. The first one I'm not sure about. My gut feeling is not warrenensis but all parameters are within specs and without an underside I wouldn't like to say a definite no.

I go to Arolla most years, not least because of the good numbers of both pales and napaea, and will make a point of keeping my eyes peeled for warrenensis in 2018!

Guy

PS - here is what I think of as a typical warrenensis, with very sparse markings and rather pointy wings:

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Kip
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Re: Swiss Skippers

Postby Kip » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:02 pm

out of interest, why not serratulae for the first?
More pics on http://ptkbutterflies.wixsite.com/photo-art - should you wish to look, I hope you like the site..

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Padfield
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Re: Swiss Skippers

Postby Padfield » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:41 pm

Kip wrote:out of interest, why not serratulae for the first?


I think that's a good suggestion. It doesn't ring warrenensis bells for me.

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David M
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Re: Swiss Skippers

Postby David M » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:00 pm

Your warrensis is quite distinctive, Guy.

I hope to search for this insect in the Queyras later this year. Is it always marked so faintly?

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Roger Gibbons
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Re: Swiss Skippers

Postby Roger Gibbons » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:00 pm

The warrenensis spots are small, discrete and generally about the same size. Not unlike a very small version of cacaliae.

Hardman's first seems to have too strong a cell spot for warrenensis and the curvature of the cell spot suggests carlinae to me, especially as the others are reasonably clearly carlinae.

David, you will know where to look in the Queyras - the puddling spot on the right just as you go into the car park usually has a selection of Pyrgus. I have seen warrenensis there, also andromdae and cacaliae, plus carlinae and alveus. You will probably need an underside shot as well as an upperside to convince the jury of warrenensis.

Arolla is a fabulous area - great for callidice, optilete, tyndarus, montana, mnestra, varia, palaeno, and many more elusive montane species. Mind you, last time I was there, I sat for two days in th Hotel Mont Collon in July as the temperature never got into double figures and it rained ceaselessly.

Roger

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David M
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Re: Swiss Skippers

Postby David M » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:52 pm

Roger Gibbons wrote:David, you will know where to look in the Queyras - the puddling spot on the right just as you go into the car park usually has a selection of Pyrgus. I have seen warrenensis there, also andromdae and cacaliae, plus carlinae and alveus. You will probably need an underside shot as well as an upperside to convince the jury of warrenensis.


Thanks, Roger. I know where you mean. I'll let the rest chase after Small Apollos while I get down to a good bit of pyrgusology! :D


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